Pamela Anderson Gets Her Flowers—From Martha Stewart

Pamela Anderson seductively gyrates beneath blinding lights. Her jazzy ensemble—bedazzled pink hat, caked-on makeup—belies her nerves, yet she dances with self-assured authority. When a man demands to know how old she is, she coyly replies, “A gentleman never asks a lady her age,” flashing a megawatt smile. I’m in a screening room watching the pop culture icon play a Vegas has-been in Gia Coppola’s quietly moving feature The Last Showgirl. As the film unfolds, it quickly becomes apparent that this is the role Anderson was born to play.

After being spotted on the jumbotron at a Canadian football game, the Ladysmith, British Columbia native was thrust immediately into the spotlight. She cemented her status as a sex symbol with Baywatch and Playboy, and became the subject of infamy over a stolen videotape and highly publicized split from musician Tommy Lee. The critically panned 1996 superhero flick Barb Wire may have temporarily ruined any chance of Anderson becoming a movie star, but she had a very memorable cameo in Borat, which also led to her breakup with Kid Rock.

Top, blazer, tie, gloves, Valentino. Sunglasses, Gentle Monster. Earrings, rings, Pandora.

And then something extraordinary happened. Anderson took control of the narrative, sharing her candid life story in a dazzling memoir and Netflix documentary. She attended Paris Fashion Week sans makeup and began using social media to promote environmental activism. It marked the beginning of a career rebirth, one that she desperately wanted.

A year later, Anderson was at home pickling brine in Vancouver Island, seriously contemplating starting a business called Pamela’s Pickles, when her son Brandon, an actor and producer, handed her the script for The Last Showgirl, following Coppola’s failed attempts to get in touch with her. After reading it, she remembers thinking, This might be my only chance to do a film, so I’m going to give it all I got. At the ripe age of 57, the poetic drama has made her an unlikely awards contender, earning industry praise and Golden Globe, Gotham, and SAG Awards nominations—but no Oscar recognition. “I always say the win is in the work,” Anderson says of the snub. “I got to do something I really love, and I needed to do that for my soul.”

If anyone knows how to stage a comeback like a seasoned pro, it’s Martha Stewart. Ahead of this sit-down, the two dynamos have lived remarkably parallel lives. Consider the release of the R.J. Cutler-directed doc Martha, their shared passion for gardening, or the fact that they’ve each weathered rocky romances and public scrutiny. They’ve both spoken out about the importance of justice in the legal system and participated in Comedy Central roasts. And in recent years, both are embracing their body more than ever before, whether it’s on the cover of the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit issue or in a Bob Mackie-designed showgirl costume decked out with rhinestones and feathers.

When Anderson and Stewart join our Zoom call, their first one-on-one meeting, they greet each other warmly, debrief on Oscar nominations, and commiserate about the devastating L.A. wildfires before getting down to business. (The first self-made female billionaire is conducting this interview, after all.) “This is very exciting for me,” Stewart says. “I got up at 4 A.M. this morning to watch your amazing performance…it was very, very well done.”

They proceed to discuss their favorite recipes (granitas), their approach to fitness (Stewart swears by Pilates), and the importance of embracing sexuality at any age. Here’s their conversation in full.

Dress, Prada. Top, Max Mara. Tie, Ralph Lauren. Pumps, Jimmy Choo. Bangles, rings, Pandora.

Pamela Anderson: I’m so excited. I thought this would just be kind of random but kind of perfect.

Martha Stewart: [Laughs] It’s very exciting for me. I got up at 4 A.M. this morning to watch your amazing performance in The Last Showgirl. And it made me very sad—it’s sad, but it was very, very well done. Congratulations.

PA: Thank you very much.

MS: I’m glad that you’re not the downtrodden woman in the film. And Jamie Lee Curtis, she did such an amazing job, as usual. Is she fun to work with?

PA: She’s so much fun. Such a champion for women, too. She took me by the shoulders and said, “I did this movie for you.” I thought, That’s a woman’s woman. She’s been there, she’s reinvented herself time and again, and I think she saw that in me—that I wanted to do the same thing—and [she] really supported me, which was incredible. I’m just so happy I got to do this.

MS: Congratulations on the Golden Globe nomination. I don’t think you got an Oscar…

PA: No, no nomination for the Oscar, but I couldn’t even imagine that. I did get a SAG nomination, which is really exciting and…all of this is just unexpected and exciting. I always say the win is in the work. I got to do something I really love, and I needed to do that for my soul.

The impossible is what excites me.”

MS: How long did it take to make the film?

PA: We shot it in 18 days.

MS: Oh wow. Amazing. So it was almost in real time, according to the story.

PA: [It was] almost impossible, but the impossible is what excites me.

MS: And where did you shoot it in Las Vegas?

PA: We shot it at the Rio, backstage in these really tiny spaces. We had to get out of there at a certain time because the show would start, so we had to put everything back.

Top, skirt, blazer, tie, McQueen. Pumps, Christian Louboutin. Bangle, rings, earrings, Pandora.

MS: What drew you to the role?

PA: I could hear the voice in my head. I could see how to play her, all the layers and nuances. I felt like it was already in my mind, and so I knew I had to do it. And that’s the first time I’ve ever experienced anything like that, because nobody was giving me these great characters to play or a script like this. I just thought, Wow.

MS: Well, you looked great in the film. Your body looked amazing. Did you have to do any special prep? You’re in fantastic shape, and your beautiful skin—I know all about your no-makeup thing going on.

PA: It wasn’t my intention when I went makeup-free for anyone to say anything. I didn’t think anyone would notice.

MS: It became a sensation, my dear.

PA: And you, Martha, with your cover of Sports Illustrated—it’s nice to be able to do things that inspire people. That’s what this business is all about for me. I always want to make sure if I’m doing a film that it’s hopeful, that it’s inspiring, that it’s always moving forward. I love that about you, and about your choices, and I think you inspire a lot of women.

MS: I asked my daughter, “Should I do it?” and she said, “Go for it.” That was encouraging. Because I know I look good.

PA: You have beautiful bone structure.

MS: I have nice bone structure and I’m strong and I’m healthy. But I work at it. I take care of myself. And I do have good heredity.

PA: I take care of myself, too. I eat healthy, I’m always outside walking. [For the film,] I worked with a great choreographer, Greg Butler, who I had worked with on Broadway when I played Roxie in Chicago. He knew where I was at—I’m not really a dancer, as much as I love it. He knew how we could work together and put that audition scene together. Dancing is great exercise. But I’ve always been active, so that’s what keeps me in shape. I don’t go to the gym or anything like that.

Top, pants, blazer, tie, belt, Saint Laurent. Gloves, Stylist’s own. Glasses, Elisa Johnson. Hoop earrings, bangles, Pandora.

MS: You don’t do Pilates like I do three mornings a week at 6:30 A.M.?

PA: I love Pilates, but I don’t have it here on the island.

MS: You could set up a Pilates studio. Everybody wants Pilates.

PA: I have a little basement in my boathouse…I could put a Pilates [reformer] in there, but I’d probably get tangled up in it.

MS: Back to the movie, I can’t stop thinking about that man in the audition scene…it’s happened to all of us. Those auditions that are just so ridiculous and so heartless. You get the real feeling of that there.

PA: I like that she doesn’t take no for an answer. She almost walks away, but then turns back and says, “What didn’t you like about it?” As much as she wore her heart on her sleeve in reassessing her life choices, she fought back.

MS: I had an experience like that when I was very young, going on go-sees as a model. They asked all the girls to bring bikinis, and after my interview with about 15 guys sitting around a table, they said, “Go get into your bikini.” And I said, “Does the part require a bikini?” And the guy said, “No, but we have you here, so we might as well look at you.” And I just walked out of the room. I was maybe 17 [years old] at the time, but I just wouldn’t put up with that crap. That’s the way I’ve been all along, I just wouldn’t put up with it. When you see that other girls put up with it because they need the money or they need the job, it’s a difficult situation. I think that might be getting better after all these years.

PA: It’s hard to navigate a business that is based on physical beauty and also naïveté. You’re in this business and you want to please people and you have a gut feeling that maybe it’s not the right thing to do, and you can get yourself in these dangerous situations. I was such a shy young girl, if you can believe it—I wanted to do anything to stop being shy. When the Playboy cover [opportunity] came up, my mom said, “Do it.” I didn’t know what it was going to lead to, but then it led to this wild and crazy life.

Top, skirt, blazer, tie, McQueen. Pumps, Christian Louboutin. Rings, earrings, Pandora.

MS: It certainly has. What was it like working with Gia Coppola?

PA: Gia is amazing. She’s such a great actor’s director. She’s very soft-spoken, but very decisive. This was her singular vision. There were so many women on this set, our DP, the girl carrying the boom. This really was a film about women created by women, written by a woman.

MS: But dressed by a man! How was Bob Mackie?

PA: Those costumes were museum pieces. They hadn’t left the theater in 30 years; some of them still had name tags in them. As much as they were sticking into me and heavy…

MS: They were quite fabulous. Those headdresses, too. Those must have hurt.

PA: Those Jubilee showgirls made it look easy. They were the icons of Las Vegas, but there’s no show anymore. Out with the old, in with the new. Las Vegas is pretty much known for that.

Dress, Prada. Top, Max Mara. Tie, Ralph Lauren. Pumps, Jimmy Choo. Bangles, rings, earrings, Pandora.

MS: I want to know about Ladysmith. It’s such a beautiful name! Is that the real name of a town?

PA: Yes, it’s an old mining town on Vancouver Island, where I grew up. My grandmother had this little auto court with nine cabins. I’m in the roadhouse right now, which used to be her general store, and she would serve tea in the little teahouse. It’s all connected. I wanted to come home to the place where the trees knew me since birth.

MS: What does the ideal day look like for you in Ladysmith?

PA: I pruned back my roses yesterday. I moved my parents onto the property, so I cook for them. It’s fun to make my dad eat more vegetables. My sons are 27 and 28 [years old], Dylan and Brandon. Brandon produced my documentary. I saw your documentary, by the way, and I loved it.

MS: Did you?

PA: Oh, it’s just so great. You’re such a beauty, and you started a whole world. I consider myself a homemaker. I love to bake and cook.

Blazer, Saint Laurent. Gloves, Stylist’s own. Glasses, Elisa Johnson. Bangles, Pandora.

MS: I got your cookbook. Very nicely done! How long did it take you to put it together?

PA: Three years. I didn’t realize what it takes to make a cookbook. I made this recipe card box for my kids when they got their first home together, and they are the ones who said, “Mom, this is a cookbook.” They’re businessmen. That was their idea. And I worked with a great photographer who shot Noma’s cookbook.

MS: You refer to very high French cuisine in the most simple, beautiful way. Have you traveled a lot in Europe?

PA: I have traveled a lot, and I spent a few years in the south of France. I lived in Saint-Tropez, I lived in Marseille, I lived in Cassis.

MS: Is your bread really, really good?

PA: My bread is really good. I have this great sourdough starter named Astrid Viking Warrior Princess.

MS: Who takes care of Astrid when you’re away?

PA: She’s in the fridge. She’s fine.

MS: What’s your favorite recipe in the book?

PA: The pierogies with peas and mint. It’s a nice combination. I have fond memories of making pierogies with my mom.

MS: It came out beautifully.

PA: Oh, thank you. That means a lot coming from you.

MS: I love your watermelon granita. I have a blood orange granita in my new cookbook.

PA: I remember when my sons were born, I planted my placenta in a blood orange tree.

I want to know what I’m made of. I feel like I’ve just scratched the surface.”

MS: Did the blood orange tree grow well?

PA: It did, but unfortunately that house burned down in one of the California fires. Poor California. I have so many friends who lost their homes. It’s very apocalyptic. I know a lot of people who work with animals, so I’ve been trying to help reunite people with their pets. The East Coast is calling me.

MS: Come to Bedford, you would love it here!

PA: I want to do some theater too, so if I [move], I’ll be closer and I’ll be a little more brave to try and experiment. I want to do things that challenge me. I want to do things that are completely transformative. That’s the exciting part of all this—that people may start seeing me doing other things. I want to know what I’m made of. I feel like I’ve just scratched the surface.

MS: Can I ask you how old you are?

PA: I’m 57.

MS: You could be my daughter.

Top, skirt, blazer, tie, McQueen. Pumps, Christian Louboutin. Rings, Pandora.

MS: What is exciting you right now? And what’s distressing you?

PA: I’ve always been a little bit of a rebel. I decided that I don’t have to wear makeup every day or be in a hair and makeup chair every day. Even in this photo shoot for ELLE, I wore makeup, and it was exciting and glamorous. I’m trying to find what my next incarnation is. I’m a farm girl, but I love glamour, and I love beauty.

MS: And you’re really good at that! You have beautiful skin and beautiful teeth and beautiful eyes. When you gave up the makeup thing, we were all saying, “I wonder how long that will last.” Because a little enhancement makes you even more fantastic.

PA: I want to experiment but do it myself.

MS: Why don’t you work with a makeup company?

PA: Maybe I should. I want to be a little more polished but not look overdone. It’s fun to do magazine covers and movies, of course. I didn’t want to think about how I looked in the film, so that was an interesting journey.

MS: Were there any parts where you don’t like what you look like?

PA: Well, I’m not playing myself. This is an entirely different person. So that’s exciting to see too, when you look up at the screen and you don’t see yourself.

MS: That’s the one thing that bothered me about doing a documentary—when I looked like something I didn’t want to look like, I was upset.

PA: Because you’re representing yourself, and you should be in charge of how you present yourself to the world.

MS: I had little arguments with the director. [Laughs]

Top, blazer, tie, gloves, Valentino. Pumps, Christian Louboutin. Sunglasses, Gentle Monster. Earrings, rings, Pandora.

PA: Well, you’re beautiful, always. Everybody thinks so.

MS: It’s hard to do a documentary.

PA: I told my son, “If you’re going to do a documentary, the only thing I ask is that I have nothing to do with it.” I let him have free reign. I haven’t even seen the whole thing from top to bottom because I started to see it and it just makes me sad, but it was the beginning of this era for me.

MS: Self-revelation, that’s what it is.

PA: Self-acceptance.

MS: When I did the Comedy Central Roast of Justin Bieber, my daughter asked, “Have you ever watched a roast, mom?” and I said, “Oh no, not really.” So I went out there totally blind and I didn’t know they were gonna roast me so hideously, but that hideous roasting of me made me even better at roasting them. Because I’m a little feisty. I can give it back. I had so much fun. I was twice as old as anybody on that stage, but so what?

PA: Having a sense of humor about yourself is really important. They did a roast of me and we raised a lot of money for PETA. I thought, Wow, I did a lot of fundraising there. It was pretty brutal.

MS: I’m writing an autobiography right now. Wait until you do that!

PA: I did write my memoir!

MS: But you’re only 57, so it’s not your memoir. It’s a diary of your life up until now. You’re gonna have so much more to write about! I’ve waited completely. Boy, I’m having fun. I’m not going to let anything not be said. I want to tell it all. It’s a huge challenge to do that and not be Barbra Streisand with 900 pages. I don’t want it to be long and boring. [Laughs] I’ve just ambled along and found my way. One of my mottos is, “When you’re through changing, you’re through.” So it’s extremely important for me to keep change happening. The next [magazine] cover will be in a bikini!

PA: I do have a few short stories that I’m working on…I don’t know what they’ll become. They might become short films. There are a lot of people talking to me about a lot of different things right now, which is really exciting, but I have no shortage of ideas. Everyone has their own way, and I feel like I’ve taken a very unorthodox route to get to this point, and it was just my way. People ask me for advice sometimes, and I think, Don’t ask me for advice, but you’ll find your way. Martha, you’re a pioneer. There was no other way but yours. And I think that’s a really exciting, romantic way to live. Living a mystery and being okay with that, that’s kind of where I’m at these days.

MS: Nicely said. It’s been so much fun to talk to you, Pamela. I’m so happy to have made your acquaintance.

PA: Thank you for doing this! I’m so happy. I can’t wait to meet you in person, and if I get out to the East Coast, we might be neighbors, you never know.

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Hair by Lacy Redway for Unilever Haircare Brand Ambassador; makeup by Rokael Lizama for Rokael Beauty; set design by Scott Moulton; produced by In The City Entertainment.

Lead image: Top, pants, blazer, tie, belt, Bottega Veneta. Gloves, Stylist’s Own. Silver pocket watch, Tissot. Hoop earrings, Pandora.